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	<title>Comments on: The Real Problem Is Not Islam</title>
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	<description>Politics &#38; Policy</description>
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		<title>By: &#124;&#124; Satyameva Jayate &#124;&#124;</title>
		<link>http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/the-real-problem-is-not-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-15197</link>
		<dc:creator>&#124;&#124; Satyameva Jayate &#124;&#124;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 21:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289#comment-15197</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] recently came across a post titled &#8220;The Real Problem is not Islam&#8221; on this blog to which I added the comment posted [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer"><img src="http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/nfs/c03/h03/mnt/56080/domains/retributions.nationalinterest.in/html/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] recently came across a post titled &#8220;The Real Problem is not Islam&#8221; on this blog to which I added the comment posted [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Thiagan</title>
		<link>http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/the-real-problem-is-not-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-13105</link>
		<dc:creator>Thiagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:42:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289#comment-13105</guid>
		<description>14/08/07

Yusuf speaks:

&quot; Before I address this issue I would like to know what have been the Human Rights records of Hindutva Ideology in India. How do proponents of Hindutva philosophy treat the minorities? What is their reaction towards Muslims and other communities?&quot; 

Thiagan says:
I assert that the humand rights record of Hindus towards others had been excellent.  Ask Parsis and Jews, who are far less in number than the muslims and please tell why they never had a problem.  The Parsis became the most valuable members of the society and we cherish their presence.  The Hindus confront muslims because the muslims hate Hindus and want to convert India into an Islamic state.  This is what is preached in mosques and madrassas; this is preached in Arabic and Yusuf will tell soemthing else in English. The Hindu population in Pakistan has come down to 2% from 20% in 1947.  It is Islam that has vaporised them into its fold.

Rohit says
&quot; Will a Hindu India led by the likes of Narendra Modi be fair to the minorities? I think the answer is fairly obvious. Thus to judge Islam from how the Islamic states behave is completely wrong.&quot;

Thiagan says:
The muslims understand only violence and the Hindus resort to that as the only option.  I will term it as an act of constructive retalliation to prevent future Godhras.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>14/08/07</p>
<p>Yusuf speaks:</p>
<p>&#8221; Before I address this issue I would like to know what have been the Human Rights records of Hindutva Ideology in India. How do proponents of Hindutva philosophy treat the minorities? What is their reaction towards Muslims and other communities?&#8221; </p>
<p>Thiagan says:<br />
I assert that the humand rights record of Hindus towards others had been excellent.  Ask Parsis and Jews, who are far less in number than the muslims and please tell why they never had a problem.  The Parsis became the most valuable members of the society and we cherish their presence.  The Hindus confront muslims because the muslims hate Hindus and want to convert India into an Islamic state.  This is what is preached in mosques and madrassas; this is preached in Arabic and Yusuf will tell soemthing else in English. The Hindu population in Pakistan has come down to 2% from 20% in 1947.  It is Islam that has vaporised them into its fold.</p>
<p>Rohit says<br />
&#8221; Will a Hindu India led by the likes of Narendra Modi be fair to the minorities? I think the answer is fairly obvious. Thus to judge Islam from how the Islamic states behave is completely wrong.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thiagan says:<br />
The muslims understand only violence and the Hindus resort to that as the only option.  I will term it as an act of constructive retalliation to prevent future Godhras.</p>
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		<title>By: Polite Indian &#124; Islam and the Non Muslims.</title>
		<link>http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/the-real-problem-is-not-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-13104</link>
		<dc:creator>Polite Indian &#124; Islam and the Non Muslims.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Aug 2007 09:06:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289#comment-13104</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Islam as a religion. Vikas questions whether Islam is a peaceful religion. Confused asserts that Islam is not the real problem. And Nitin maintains that it is the state and not Islam per se and concludes that it is more of [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer"><img src="http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/nfs/c03/h03/mnt/56080/domains/retributions.nationalinterest.in/html/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] Islam as a religion. Vikas questions whether Islam is a peaceful religion. Confused asserts that Islam is not the real problem. And Nitin maintains that it is the state and not Islam per se and concludes that it is more of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: On State Sponsored Grey Beards at Retributions</title>
		<link>http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/the-real-problem-is-not-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-11842</link>
		<dc:creator>On State Sponsored Grey Beards at Retributions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jul 2007 19:20:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289#comment-11842</guid>
		<description>[...] This is not to agree with Atanu&#8217;s apocalyptic version; that way lies a clash of civilization. The real danger the world faces is from political Islam; a moderate religious state of any denomination is a mirage. It is almost inevitable that in such case the religious debate would be ultimately won by the more zealous. So what can India do? It must address the root of the problem; lack of secular liberal democracies in the Muslims majority world. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This is not to agree with Atanu&#8217;s apocalyptic version; that way lies a clash of civilization. The real danger the world faces is from political Islam; a moderate religious state of any denomination is a mirage. It is almost inevitable that in such case the religious debate would be ultimately won by the more zealous. So what can India do? It must address the root of the problem; lack of secular liberal democracies in the Muslims majority world. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Misconceptions about Hinduism continue&#8230; &#171; &#124;&#124; B Shantanu&#8217;s blog &#124;&#124;</title>
		<link>http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/the-real-problem-is-not-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-7994</link>
		<dc:creator>Misconceptions about Hinduism continue&#8230; &#171; &#124;&#124; B Shantanu&#8217;s blog &#124;&#124;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Mar 2007 13:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289#comment-7994</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] 4th, 2007 &#183; No Comments  I recently came across a post titled &#8220;The Real Problem is not Islam&#8221; on this blog towhich I added the comment posted below. [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://dev.wp-plugins.org/wiki/Kramer"><img src="http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/nfs/c03/h03/mnt/56080/domains/retributions.nationalinterest.in/html/wp-content/plugins/kramer.php?kramer=gif-icon" class="technorati-balloon" alt="Kramer auto Pingback" style="border:0;" /></a>[...] 4th, 2007 &middot; No Comments  I recently came across a post titled &#8220;The Real Problem is not Islam&#8221; on this blog towhich I added the comment posted below. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: B Shantanu</title>
		<link>http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/the-real-problem-is-not-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-7910</link>
		<dc:creator>B Shantanu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Mar 2007 20:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289#comment-7910</guid>
		<description>All,
I am coming late into this debate but I must say that I disagree with at least some of the points you have made.

The debate about Islam being a peaceful religion (or not) is not irrelevant as it does impact terrorism and events around us (including the war in Iraq)

You say that â€œ

&lt;blockquote&gt;Enough evidence can be cited from almost any religious text to show how every religion promoted violence and discrimination at one point of time or anotherâ€&lt;/blockquote&gt;

â€“ and you have included the wikipedia link to Hinduism in the quote.
Two things, violence and discrimination are NOT the same things. 
Secondly, the discrimination that you refer to in Hinduism (I can only presume you mean the caste system) is such a complex subject that it is easy to be intellectually lazy about it (See e.g. this â€œ&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_051125.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Varna and Jatis: the need for clarity&lt;/a&gt;â€ ) 

You also say that 

&lt;blockquote&gt;â€œThe very nature of religion as a group which can only expand its power by enlisting additional hands is enough to ensure that it can never behave fairly to those who choose a different pathâ€&lt;/blockquote&gt;


â€¦Well, I guess that you are primarily thinking of Abrahamic (and monotheistic religions here)â€¦Hinduism of course has never attempted to proselytise and is certainly not monotheistic. See e.g. â€œ&lt;a href=&quot;http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/2007/03/01/hinduism-not-monotheism-in-disguise/ &quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Hinduism â€“ NOT â€œmonotheism in disguise&lt;/a&gt;â€ 

You further say that 

&lt;blockquote&gt;â€œA Hindu state or the Christian state would treat its minorities the same way as the Islamic states doâ€&lt;/blockquote&gt;

- This again is a statement that is very hard to defend intellectually. 

Historically, the liberal strain within Hinduism has ensured that minorities are not persecuted even though their beliefs may, at times run counter to the prevailing orthodoxy of the time (Buddhism e.g.). 

Secondly what makes you think that a Hindu state will not be secular? Is there anything within the philosophy or the belief system that prevents a Hindu state from treating its minorities fairly? In fact, &lt;a href=&quot;http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/2006/05/30/excerpts-from-the-dangers-of-monotheism/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;scholars have argued&lt;/a&gt; that India (and Hinduism) can be a role model for peace in the 21st century.

Look forward to your thoughts.
B Shantanu @ http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All,<br />
I am coming late into this debate but I must say that I disagree with at least some of the points you have made.</p>
<p>The debate about Islam being a peaceful religion (or not) is not irrelevant as it does impact terrorism and events around us (including the war in Iraq)</p>
<p>You say that â€œ</p>
<blockquote><p>Enough evidence can be cited from almost any religious text to show how every religion promoted violence and discrimination at one point of time or anotherâ€</p></blockquote>
<p>â€“ and you have included the wikipedia link to Hinduism in the quote.<br />
Two things, violence and discrimination are NOT the same things.<br />
Secondly, the discrimination that you refer to in Hinduism (I can only presume you mean the caste system) is such a complex subject that it is easy to be intellectually lazy about it (See e.g. this â€œ<a href="http://www.ivarta.com/columns/OL_051125.htm" rel="nofollow">Varna and Jatis: the need for clarity</a>â€ ) </p>
<p>You also say that </p>
<blockquote><p>â€œThe very nature of religion as a group which can only expand its power by enlisting additional hands is enough to ensure that it can never behave fairly to those who choose a different pathâ€</p></blockquote>
<p>â€¦Well, I guess that you are primarily thinking of Abrahamic (and monotheistic religions here)â€¦Hinduism of course has never attempted to proselytise and is certainly not monotheistic. See e.g. â€œ<a href="http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/2007/03/01/hinduism-not-monotheism-in-disguise/ " rel="nofollow">Hinduism â€“ NOT â€œmonotheism in disguise</a>â€ </p>
<p>You further say that </p>
<blockquote><p>â€œA Hindu state or the Christian state would treat its minorities the same way as the Islamic states doâ€</p></blockquote>
<p>- This again is a statement that is very hard to defend intellectually. </p>
<p>Historically, the liberal strain within Hinduism has ensured that minorities are not persecuted even though their beliefs may, at times run counter to the prevailing orthodoxy of the time (Buddhism e.g.). </p>
<p>Secondly what makes you think that a Hindu state will not be secular? Is there anything within the philosophy or the belief system that prevents a Hindu state from treating its minorities fairly? In fact, <a href="http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/2006/05/30/excerpts-from-the-dangers-of-monotheism/" rel="nofollow">scholars have argued</a> that India (and Hinduism) can be a role model for peace in the 21st century.</p>
<p>Look forward to your thoughts.<br />
B Shantanu @ <a href="http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/" rel="nofollow">http://hindudharma.wordpress.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Retributions &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Islam, Terror and the Nuclear Bomb</title>
		<link>http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/the-real-problem-is-not-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-4175</link>
		<dc:creator>Retributions &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Islam, Terror and the Nuclear Bomb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Oct 2006 01:37:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289#comment-4175</guid>
		<description>[...] The key question to consider here is: does an Islamic state possessing a nuclear bomb by itself makes it an Islamic bomb? In other words, are Islamic states guided by national interest or by higher divine principles where deaths of few millions is justified in the name of higher (divine) cause? This question has no easy answers, while there is no doubt that a streak of fanaticism runs through many of Islamic countries, I would still hold that Islam is merely a tool to cling to power, the tag of holiness precludes theÂ  need for accountability and justifications. Political Islam needs to be stripped of its holiness and should be examined as another form of authoritarian system of governance, a direct result of the absence of secular and democratic traditions.Â  In many ways, it is reminiscent of how Marxism was used by the Soviets to build one of the largest empirse in the world. As Feldman notes, &#8216;&#8217;death to America&#039;&#8217; is much as a nationalist slogan as it is an Islamic one. The very debauchery of Saudi princes who while preaching the most virulent form of Wahabism at home, splurge millions abroadÂ  should give us hope! [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The key question to consider here is: does an Islamic state possessing a nuclear bomb by itself makes it an Islamic bomb? In other words, are Islamic states guided by national interest or by higher divine principles where deaths of few millions is justified in the name of higher (divine) cause? This question has no easy answers, while there is no doubt that a streak of fanaticism runs through many of Islamic countries, I would still hold that Islam is merely a tool to cling to power, the tag of holiness precludes theÂ  need for accountability and justifications. Political Islam needs to be stripped of its holiness and should be examined as another form of authoritarian system of governance, a direct result of the absence of secular and democratic traditions.Â  In many ways, it is reminiscent of how Marxism was used by the Soviets to build one of the largest empirse in the world. As Feldman notes, &#8216;&#8217;death to America&#8217;&#8217; is much as a nationalist slogan as it is an Islamic one. The very debauchery of Saudi princes who while preaching the most virulent form of Wahabism at home, splurge millions abroadÂ  should give us hope! [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Hindutva Exposed!!!!!! at Yusuf Speaks</title>
		<link>http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/the-real-problem-is-not-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-2548</link>
		<dc:creator>Hindutva Exposed!!!!!! at Yusuf Speaks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Oct 2006 16:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289#comment-2548</guid>
		<description>[...] Recently I read few articles on the blog in which Muslims were criticized for perpetrating human rights violation on Hindus in Islamic Lands. http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289, http://www.arthshastra.com/archive/is-islam-a-peaceful-religionÂ Before I address this issue I would like to know what have been the Human Rights records of Hindutva Ideology in India. How do proponents of Hindutva philosophy treat the minorities? What is their reaction towards Muslims and other communities? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Recently I read few articles on the blog in which Muslims were criticized for perpetrating human rights violation on Hindus in Islamic Lands. <a href="http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289" rel="nofollow">http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289</a>, <a href="http://www.arthshastra.com/archive/is-islam-a-peaceful-religionÂ Before" rel="nofollow">http://www.arthshastra.com/archive/is-islam-a-peaceful-religionÂ Before</a> I address this issue I would like to know what have been the Human Rights records of Hindutva Ideology in India. How do proponents of Hindutva philosophy treat the minorities? What is their reaction towards Muslims and other communities? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: When frivolous opinions buzzed at Serendipity</title>
		<link>http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/the-real-problem-is-not-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-1275</link>
		<dc:creator>When frivolous opinions buzzed at Serendipity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289#comment-1275</guid>
		<description>[...] So what&#8217;s the fuss all about? Bloggers are castigating Islam as a belligerent religion which has no respect for human rights. They base their claim on human rights violation in many Gulf countries. They argue that Hindus in Gulf, especially Saudi Arabia, don&#8217;t have the right to build temples. And that  Middle East, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, certain regions of Africa and Indonesia and see how the â€œweaker partyâ€ that is, non-Muslims have been treated in those regions? Is there freedom of religion? Is there freedom of speech? Can you openly practice your faith? What about civil laws? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] So what&#8217;s the fuss all about? Bloggers are castigating Islam as a belligerent religion which has no respect for human rights. They base their claim on human rights violation in many Gulf countries. They argue that Hindus in Gulf, especially Saudi Arabia, don&#8217;t have the right to build temples. And that  Middle East, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Afghanistan, certain regions of Africa and Indonesia and see how the â€œweaker partyâ€ that is, non-Muslims have been treated in those regions? Is there freedom of religion? Is there freedom of speech? Can you openly practice your faith? What about civil laws? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sharique</title>
		<link>http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/the-real-problem-is-not-islam/comment-page-1/#comment-1219</link>
		<dc:creator>Sharique</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Sep 2006 10:13:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://retributions.nationalinterest.in/?p=289#comment-1219</guid>
		<description>All these days I have been trying to dig in the ground realities regarding violation of human rights in Saudi Arabia. But then I wonder how do I justify my point when the Saudis and most of the Arab states donâ€™t follow the Islamic guidelines. Fine I will try to argue rationally without being prejudiced or biased.
Here is my response &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.shaarique.com/islam/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;When frivolous opinions buzzed&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All these days I have been trying to dig in the ground realities regarding violation of human rights in Saudi Arabia. But then I wonder how do I justify my point when the Saudis and most of the Arab states donâ€™t follow the Islamic guidelines. Fine I will try to argue rationally without being prejudiced or biased.<br />
Here is my response <a href="http://www.shaarique.com/islam/" rel="nofollow">When frivolous opinions buzzed</a></p>
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